日本海事新聞ニュース Japan Maritime Daily Jul 07, 2022 (Thu)

Interview with Mr. Polys Hajioannou, CEO and Chairman, Safe Bulkers “Diversify finance sources with Japanese S&LB”

Mr. Polys Hajioannou, Chairman and CEO of Safe Bulkers

　The Greek shipowner Safe Bulkers, which specializes in dry bulk, owns more than 40 ships, 80% of wh ・・・ 続きはログインして下さいnext %E3%80%80The+Greek+shipowner+Safe+Bulkers%2C+which+specializes+in+dry+bulk%2C+owns+more+than+40+ships%2C+80%25+of+which+was+built+by+the+Japanese+shipyards.+In+recent+years%2C+it+has+a+deep+relationship+with+Japan%2C+such+as+aggressive+sales+and+leasebacks+%28%3D+S%26LB%2C+leaseback+after+sale%29+with+Japanese+ship+owners.+I+asked+Polys+Hajioannou%2C+Chairman+and+CEO+%28Chief+Executive+Officer%29%2C+about+investment+and+financing+strategies.+%3Cbr%3E%28Interviewer+Azumi+Kashiwai%29+%3Cbr%3E%E3%80%80-Please+tell+me+about+the+outline+and+the+strong+points+of+Safe+Bulkers.%3Cbr%3ESafe+Bulkers+is+a+pure+dry+bulk+company+owning+43+bulk+carriers.+Average+age+is+about+10+years+old+and+80%25+of+our+fleet+is+built+by+Japanese+yards.+We+are+a+listed+company+in+the+New+York+Stock+Exchange.%3Cbr%3E%3Cbr%3EWe+have+10+newbuilding+orderbook%2C+8+of+which+will+be+built+in+Japan+and+delivered+in+the+next+24+months.+In+2024%2C+our+fleet+age+will+remain+around+10+years+old+because+of+the+addition+of+the+newbuildings.+%3Cbr%3E%3Cbr%3EOur+strong+point+is+a+long+experience+in+the+dry+bulk+markets+since+1958.+We+have+a+close+relationship+with+Japanese+charterers%2C+shipyards%2C+financial+institutions%2C+ship+owners+for+leasing+business%2C+and+JBIC+for+export+credit+finance.+We+are+the+only+Greek+company+in+the+last+40+years+to+obtain+export+credit+finance+from+the+Japanese+government.%3Cbr%3E%3Cbr%3EWe+operate+Panamax+in+the+spot+market+or+fix+up+to+one+year.+About+Capesizes%2C+we+would+prefer+to+fix+two+or+three+years.+%3Cbr%3E%3Cbr%3E-What+is+the+company%E2%80%99s+basic+financial+strategy%3F+%3Cbr%3EOur+policy+is+to+keep+total+debt+of+the+company%2C+including+corporate+bonds%2C+around+the+scrap+value+of+our+fleet.+At+the+moment%2C+we+reach+a+well-balanced+point+and+I+want+to+keep+those+levels.%3Cbr%3E%3Cbr%3EWe+paid+dividends+in+a+relatively+small+percentage%2C+around+20%25%2C+and+we+used+the+balance+of+the+money+to+keep+the+debt+low%2C+to+grow+the+company%2C+and+to+renew+the+fleet+with+newbuildings.+%3Cbr%3E%3Cbr%3E-When+you+order+a+newbuilding%2C+how+much+percentage+is+the+debt+and+equity%3F%3Cbr%3EIt+is+regularly+50%2F50.%3Cbr%3E%3Cbr%3E-What+point+is+attractive+about+sale+%26+lease+back+with+Japanese+owners%3F%3Cbr%3EWe+have+developed+a+sale+%26+lease+back+business+in+Japan+in+the+last+12+months%2C+mostly+newbuildings+but+also+some+second+hand.+During+the+time+of+COVID-19+restriction%2C+many+European+banks+were+very+slow+on+developing+their+business.+Therefore%2C+there+was+an+opportunity+to+do+business+with+a+new+way+of+financing.+%3Cbr%3E%3Cbr%3EWe+are+a+listed+company%2C+so+basically+people+know+us+very+well+and+they+can+evaluate+our+financial+position.+Then+Japanese+trading+houses+came+and+offered+us+those+businesses.+%3Cbr%3E%3Cbr%3EGood+Japanese+owners+offer+competitive+rates+in+line+with+European+banks+and+it%E2%80%99s+usually+longer+term.%3Cbr%3E%3Cbr%3EAs+Japanese+owners+have+liquidity%2C+and+they+want+to+invest+in+ships+without+waiting+for+delivery+times+from+shipyards.+In+order+to+create+finance+opportunities%2C+they+purchase+our+existing+vessels.%3Cbr%3E%3Cbr%3EIn+recent+months%2C+we+have+done+3+or+4+vessels+of+sale+%26+lease+backs+in+Japan.+Also+we+have+done+the+JOLCO+financing+for+existing+ships.+We+have+used+all+these+sources+of+finance.%3Cbr%3E%3Cbr%3E-Are+you+going+to+have+more+sale+%26+lease+backs+from+now%3F%3Cbr%3EIt+depends+on+the+situation.+We+will+develop+business+with+European+banks+in+the+next+few+months+as+we+are+normalized+back+from+COVID-19.+%3Cbr%3E%3Cbr%3EAt+the+moment%2C+our+company+has+a+lot+of+liquidity%2C+so+we+don%E2%80%99t+need+too+much+finance.+%3Cbr%3E%3Cbr%3EWe+think+that+finance+will+be+needed+in+future+for+the+case+of+further+investment+in+new+types+of+vessels.+Liquidity+will+be+needed+when+we+know+the+new+type+of+engines+for+decarbonization.%3Cbr%3E%3Cbr%3E-How+was+the+investment+activity+in+recent+years%3F%3Cbr%3EWe+started+to+invest+in+second+hand+and+newbuilding+vessels+in+the+middle+of+2020.+We+saw+that+the+market+was+affected+a+lot+by+COVID-19+but+also+there+was+demand+building+on+the+back+of+the+firm+world+economy.+We+had+low+Interest+rates+and+supply-demand+seemed+to+be+very+balanced.+%3Cbr%3E%3Cbr%3ETherefore%2C+we+were+expecting+at+a+certain+point+that+the+market+would+pick+up.+The+strong+recovery+started+to+materialize+from+October+2020.+We+were+lucky+to+have+bought+one+Oshima+resale+at+a+very+good+price.+In+the+last+2+years%2C+we+have+ordered+9+newbuildings+in+Japan+and+2+in+China.%3Cbr%3E%3Cbr%3E-What+is+your+investment+plan+at+the+moment%3F%3Cbr%3EWe+have+invested+in+4+second+hand+Capesize+bulkers+in+the+recent+months.+2+of+which+were+built+in+2012-2014+in+Japan%2C+the+other+2+were+built+in+2012+in+China.+%3Cbr%3E%3Cbr%3EWe+believe+that+the+Chinese+government+will+invest+heavily+on+infrastructure+to+boost+the+economy+in+the+post+COVID-19.+Therefore%2C+we+are+buying+second+hand+and+we+prefer+Capesize+to+capture+this+possibility.+%3Cbr%3E%3Cbr%3EIt+is+also+because+all+of+our+newbuilding+order+books+are+82%2C000-87%2C000dwt%2C+we+ought+to+concentrate+at+Capesizes+at+secondhand+investment.+%3Cbr%3E%3Cbr%3ESo+maybe+in+the+next+few+months%2C+we%E2%80%99ll+buy+two+or+three+more+vessels+and+put+them+into+a+2+or+3-year+charter+contract.%3Cbr%3E%3Cbr%3EWe+prefer+to+buy+second+hand+from+Japanese+owners+but+there+are+not+so+many+for+sale+in+the+market+at+the+moment.+Maybe+in+Q4%2C+we+see+some+more+or+maybe+next+year.%3Cbr%3E%3Cbr%3E-In+May%2C+Safe+Bulkers+ordered+2+Kamsarmax+newbuildings+from+a+Chinese+yard.%3Cbr%3EIt+is+because+they+also+develop+the+new+design+of+EEDI+phase+3%2C+and+we+get+an+attractive+price+in+China.+Also%2C+the+Japanese+shipyard+increased+the+price+for+Kamsarmax+a+lot+to+over+40+million+dollars.+I+think+it%E2%80%99s+not+so+easy+to+order+at+these+prices%2C+so+we+look+into+China+for+the+next+few+months.+%3Cbr%3E%3Cbr%3EThe+price+gap+between+Japanese+yards+and+Chinese+yards+is+more+than+five+million+for+Kamsarmax.%3Cbr%3E%3Cbr%3EThese+2+newbuilding+vessels+in+China+will+be+delivered+in+2024+and+the+very+beginning+of+2025.+On+the+other+hand%2C+most+Japanese+yards%E2%80%99+delivery+slots+are+now+reaching+2025.+We+wanted+an+earlier+delivery.+%3Cbr%3E%3Cbr%3EIt+is+our+first+newbuilding+order+in+China+since+2014.+The+last+ship+we+built+in+China+was+Kamsarmax+delivered+in+2017.+Lately+we+sold+three+of+our+Chinese+vessels+ordered+in+2010+at+a+very+good+price%2C+almost+the+same+price+as+when+we+ordered+the+vessels.%3Cbr%3E%3Cbr%3EIn+addition%2C+Chinese+ships+have+a+lot+of+steel+volume%2C+so+scrap+prices+will+be+good.%3Cbr%3E%3Cbr%3E-Could+you+tell+me+the+dry+bulk+market+forecast%3F%3Cbr%3EI+believe+the+market+in+general+will+be+good+for+the+next+two+years+because+of+the+very+low+order+book.+Of+course%2C+we+know+that+there+is+some+slowdown+in+economies+because+of+inflation+and+higher+interest+rates+in+the+US+and+Europe.+About+the+outcome+of+the+war+in+Ukraine%2C+in+the+short+term+it+may+be+positive+for+ton-miles%2C+but%2C+later+on%2C+world+economic+slowdown+will+affect+demands%2C+but+at+least+we+have+very+low+supply.+%3Cbr%3E%3Cbr%3EThe+good+market+will+generally+prevail.+Maybe+it%E2%80%99s+not+%2430%2C000+a+day+for+Panamax%2FKamsarmax%2C+maybe+it%E2%80%99s+more+like+%2420%2C000+a+day.+It%E2%80%99s+still+a+very+good+market.%3Cbr%3E%3Cbr%3EThere+is+an+expectation+that+there+will+be+some+recession+in+2024.+All+depends+on+the+outcome+of+the+war.+If+the+war+finishes+in+the+next+six+months%2C+maybe+we+can+avoid+a+recession.%3Cbr%3E%3Cbr%3E-Could+you+tell+me+about+your+analysis+regarding+the+next+generation+fuel%3F%3Cbr%3EWe+have+some+opinions+but+we%E2%80%99re+not+100%25+deciding+because+we+don%E2%80%99t+know+the+availability+of+which+fuel+will+prevail.+Before+we+know+what+type+of+fuel+will+prevail%2C+we+cannot+take+firm+decisions+on+what+we+can+order+for+the+next+generation+vessels.%3Cbr%3E%3Cbr%3EAlso%2C+I+don%E2%80%99t+think+that+the+shipyards+will+be+ready+before+2026+to+make+available+bulk+carriers+with+a+new+type+of+engines.+%3Cbr%3E%3Cbr%3EWe+don%E2%80%99t+want+to+be+the+very+first+to+order+and+then+find+out+that+the+fuel-selected+is+not+available+in+the+market+when+those+ships+are+delivered.%3Cbr%3E%3Cbr%3EWe+need+to+be+a+little+bit+more+patient.+Maybe+2023+will+be+the+time+to+consider+a+new+type+of+engine+for+our+newbuildings.+Of+course%2C+we+are+always+open+to+discuss+and+exchange+the+ideas+with+shipyards.%3Cbr%3E%3Cbr%3E-Last+year%2C+Safe+Bulkers+placed+a+newbuilding+order+from+Oshima+Shipbuilding+for+the+first+time.++%3Cbr%3EYes.+We+became+the+first+Greek+owner+to+order+from+Oshima+since+the+1970s.+We+had+discussions+for+about+six+months+or+10+months+and+we+materialized+a+new+business+together.+I+know+other+2+or+3+owners+placed+orders+at+the+same+time.+%3Cbr%3E%3Cbr%3EWe%E2%80%99re+very+happy+because+Oshima+is+a+pure+bulk+carrier+company%2C+and+we+know+that+their+quality+is+very+high.+We+bought+secondhand+Oshima+vessels+before%2C+around+10+years+old.+We+kept+those+vessels+for+7-8+years+and+they+are+problem+free+vessels.+We+are+very+happy+with+their+performance+and+their+standards.%3Cbr%3E%3Cbr%3E-What+will+be+the+next+activities+in+Japan%3F%3Cbr%3EWe%E2%80%99re+now+concentrating+on+getting+the+delivery+of+the+ships+we+ordered.+We%E2%80%99ve+already+taken+delivery+of+our+first+EEDI+phase+3%2FNOx+tier+III+newbuilding+in+early+May+from+Shin+Kurushima+Sanoyas+Shipbuilding.+We%E2%80%99re+very+happy+with+the+performance+of+the+vessel%2C+very+economic+according+to+our+expectations.+We+believe+that+it+was+a+good+decision+to+order+this+vessel.%3Cbr%3E%3Cbr%3EIt%E2%80%99s+very+important+to+have+such+economical+vessels+in+the+fleet%2C+especially+now+that+the+fuel+price+is+so+expensive.+VLSFO+price+is+over+%241%2C100+per+metric+ton.+%3Cbr%3E%3Cbr%3E%3Cbr%3E%3Cbr%3EDisclaimer%3A+The+English+translations+provided+through+this+service+are+the+result+of+translations+made+by+The+Japan+Maritime+Daily+or+automatically+and+mechanically+translated+by+The+Japan+Maritime+Daily+using+an+autom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【インタビュー　ギリシャ船主の投資戦略】(2)セーフバルカーズ会長兼CEO　ポリス・ハジオアヌ氏、S&LBで調達多様化

2022/07/07(木)

日本海事新聞 JMD

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